Charles, who had been disheartened by the regular representatives, soon found friendship with another representative.
His speech, which incited independence, some of the democratic ideals within it, and other elements, unsurprisingly earned the admiration of Thomas Jefferson.
He specially delayed his return to Virginia to stay and talk with Charles.
As Charles also intended to befriend this "Father of American Democracy," the two agreed to have lunch together that day.
Jefferson was one of the younger members of the Continental Congress, currently only thirty-three years old.
However, compared to Charles, he was still considerably older and more mature.
Therefore, Jefferson, as if assessing a junior or a young man, shortly after the conversation began, posed some questions to Charles regarding the current situation:
"Godfrey, what do you think of the current situation in North America? How do you think it will develop in the future?"
Upon first hearing this familiar question-and-answer format, Charles felt a bit like laughing; how could these founding fathers be like twenty-first-century company recruiters, always asking cliché questions about future prospects?
But then he thought it was reasonable, as it was also a common question the older generation liked to ask newcomers.
If he immediately started answering voluminously at that moment, the consequences would surely be dire.
If Jefferson was conservative, he would consider him a person who liked to boast idly.
If Jefferson lacked magnanimity, then his future would surely be over.
Even if Jefferson was a good person and truly cared for him like an elder for a junior, a lengthy display of foresight in his answer would at most only earn a kind of comforting praise like "seeing successors to the revolution," without any substantial benefit.
Jefferson would absolutely not consider one of his answers to be some "guiding light for the progress of North America."
"I believe that although North America is currently at war with Britain, regardless of victory or defeat, British control over North America will be greatly weakened, and at that time, North America will usher in a beautiful prospect of free development."
Charles ended his answer with just a general statement.
This answer clearly pleased Jefferson, earning him a smile.
In Charles' view, it was that kind of relief, "seeing successors to the revolution."
However, Jefferson certainly wouldn't think that asking just that one question was enough; there were many more questions that followed, casually asking about his hometown, his studies, his life in France, whom he had met, and so on, with questions about the current situation and future prospects naturally interspersed, including some answers about Europe.
"Europe? Their pace of progress is truly too fast.
Britain, this maritime nation, has long been pressing down on the powerful continental nations, which has stimulated them to move towards a path of confrontation between great powers.
Under the leadership of Frederick the Great, Prussia's gradual move towards unification is already inevitable... Haha! France, I also lived there for a few years, and the ladies there are indeed very romantic... I greatly admire its thought and cultural development; I feel it has reached a point where it can change the entire social structure, and perhaps in a few years, a revolution that changes the form of society might occur..."
Charles used the roughest language to predict the development prospects of some European countries and their monarchs, and even made humorous comments on the private lives of many people.
If it had been an ordinary person, they might have found Charles' predictions and comments amusing, but Jefferson, such a great philosopher, was very enthusiastic about the current situations in Europe and America, and had studied them carefully.
Upon hearing Charles' comments, he believed that his answers indeed contained Charles' own thoughts, and that he was a truly insightful young man worth training.
He immediately ended his investigative questioning and transitioned to a truly friendly and equal conversation.
The two conversed happily, with one asking and the other answering.
Charles applied some modern democratic knowledge, which Jefferson naturally found very interesting.
Jefferson shared some of his understanding of democracy and the views of other philosophers, which, as guidance for a junior, also greatly impressed Charles.
A scholar is a scholar; although Charles had some progressive knowledge, facing this famous great lawyer, he still felt it was mainly a discussion, not a lecture.
Sometimes, when encountering problems he couldn't explain, Jefferson could often find the answers himself, which scared Charles into never daring to show off his progressive ideas again.
However, there were also issues.
Jefferson's views on certain matters, such as the abolition of a standing army, the establishment of a confederation, and the creation of a completely free government, had already been proven wrong in later generations.
Charles, intending to show off, even tried to point out his mistakes, but to his surprise, Jefferson stubbornly adhered to his own views.
Even though he admitted some of Charles' statements were correct, he simply did not express agreement on the overall philosophical perspective.
He even claimed that "a philosopher must adhere to his own thoughts," believing that he had simply not yet found reasons to refute them, but that did not mean these reasons did not exist, which made Charles' head spin, going back and forth, and even almost led him to support Jefferson's views himself.
Even a twenty-first-century PhD tour guide could not match the eloquence of this eighteenth-century eloquent lawyer.
"So, you actually agree to establish a free government, not an authoritarian government, then."
Jefferson smiled, looking at Charles.
"Charles, you can't stick to your own views; it seems your thinking isn't very mature yet!"
They debated what kind of political system the Thirteen Colonies should adopt after winning the war against the British army.
After realizing Jefferson's formidable nature, Charles, of course, honestly stated that a Federal Government with a separation of powers should be established, with the Federal Government centrally managing the entire nation.
However, at this time, Jefferson was a proponent of free government; he advocated for the establishment of a confederation, where the governments of the Thirteen Colonies would have full authority to manage affairs within their own territories.
Influenced by Jefferson's earlier eloquent arguments, Charles no longer dared to stick to his own opinion, which led to Jefferson's joke above.
If Jefferson hadn't smiled, Charles would have said no more, but now, with such a taunt, Charles, afraid of being looked down upon, had to respond:
"No! Mr. Jefferson.
My not insisting on establishing a Federal Government after the war is not because establishing a Federal Government is wrong, but because the time is not yet ripe."
"Timing?" Jefferson was puzzled, "For such a significant matter that benefits the nation and its people, we should want it to happen as soon as possible; how can we still wait for the right time?"
"Of course, we must consider the timing," Charles affirmed.
"Thomas, not everyone, like you, considers only the nation and its people.
Currently, we, the representatives of the Thirteen Colonies, plus myself, the representative of the Western pioneers, are gathered together for common cooperation against Britain.
For the victory of the war, we can sacrifice.
But after the war, without a common enemy, many of our representatives will reclaim their own power.
After all, many people can become rulers in their own states, but cannot become rulers of a whole nation..."
Seeing Jefferson about to explain, he waved his hand to stop him:
"Of course, I know, there are many others, like you, who believe that we gathered together originally to resist the rule of the British king, originally for freedom.
After the war is won and we are free, we cannot establish another Federal Government to restrict our freedom.
Although it is not for power considerations, you will still oppose the establishment of a Federal Government, which is why I said that the conditions for immediately establishing a Federal Government after the war are not yet ripe."
Jefferson smiled, acknowledging Charles' explanation, but continued to press:
"Even so, I still don't believe that establishing a Federal Government is better than establishing a Confederate Government.
Centralization, this thing, only slowly reveals its dangers after it appears; its current absence does not mean it cannot appear in the future.
And a free government, a confederated nation, is at least a new attempt, and its theory is entirely correct, just waiting to be proven.
Of course, I am willing to accept opinions; if you can explain in more detail why a Federal Government is better than a Confederate Government, then I can change my stance and support the establishment of a Federal Government."
Haha, Washington and Adams also often say that establishing a Federal Government is good, and there are many who adhere to your faction's view.
"If you can persuade me, I can also help persuade other confederationists to support you, and then, if an absolute majority is formed in the Continental Congress, it might be possible to directly establish a Federal Government."
Charles also responded with a smile on his face, but inwardly he cursed: What does establishing or not establishing a Federal Government have to do with me? I can't become the Federal President.
Without a Federal Government managing things, I can be even freer.
However, for the sake of his views, he still said:
"If I could persuade you in a few words, then General Washington and his companions should have already persuaded you.
However, I can state my main basis: because unity is strength.
Each person can break a single stick, but if thirteen sticks are tied together, even a strong man might not be able to break them."
"The existence of a confederation is to gather the strength of the other twelve sticks when someone tries to break one of ours."
Jefferson was not so easily persuaded.
"And if the thirteen sticks are always tied together, she loses her freedom and can never hope to fly in the air."
True philosophers are people with their own thoughts; their thoughts are absolutely not formed by a sudden whim or inspiration.
The thoughts of philosophers all come from slow accumulation, negation of negation, affirmation of affirmation, constant self-criticism and refinement, with very profound foundations.
If it's just one or two insightful sentences, it is absolutely impossible to shake a philosopher's thoughts.
And it is beyond doubt that Jefferson was the greatest philosopher of the North American independence period.