INTERVIEW 2
The following interview was conducted in the early fall of 1014 GKE.
Transcribed by Kalina Mutsi, from a zlurzlæer recording.
Interviewee: Lady Mafavana Vruur, Mr. Frisch's colleague and friend from the University of Suhnfri-Tsunmuz, Department of Humanistic Sciences, 62 summers old.
Q:Lady Vruur, as we begin this interview I must thank you for your time and effort to come and meet us. I hope that the road from Kachkrer to here wasn't too arduous.
A: Oh, no! Not at all. Don't be silly. I am more than glad to help young academicians in their time of need. I was once where you are now, and quite frankly, I must say these days I reminisce so much about the beauties of Academia. Oh, the assignments that teachers gave us were so much fun, and all the parties that I went to. (chuckle) What a great time I had!
Too bad it got spoiled by the war and politics and nonsense. They definitely took away a part of my youth, and that I will never forgive. And, I also wanted to come back to Dzinvana, or Vrirravlam I suppose it is called today. I can't remember when was the last time I came here for something other than work. The traditional Dzana architecture is also nice to look at. All these buildings are fabulous.
Q:We are glad to hear that. Now, as you are probably aware, we contacted you as we are currently conducting research on the recent emergence of the True Believers and how they developed. They are carrying the philosophical backbone of one of your peers which was Mr. Frisch Allupi, hence we would like to conduct an interview, diving deeper into who Mr. Frisch Allupi was, and what he was like during the brief Academia days that you shared together, and of course, if you had the opportunity to continue your relationship with him.
A: Oh, I see you did your research well. Yes, however Frischko and I know each other from a little earlier than that. Our fathers were both regional manager deputies for the former ZAMEX (Zanmaku Automotive Mechanica Komplex). When Denovrri brought the whole autocar business here, Zanmaku created ZAMEX. It was a government run industrial complex which incorporated many technologies from the northern continent.
Both fathers were of Denovrri descent. Mine was the first generation imigranta, but I am not so sure about Frisch's. They both however were formally educated in Denovrri engineering, and were first among many to apply and be accepted. They spent most of their working time together, planting stores in different cities and ensuring quality work. Naturally, they became friends in the process so I had the pleasure of meeting him and his brothers from a very early age.
Q: That's incredible to hear. Then, forgive me but if I may ask Lady Vruur, would it be alright if we talked about the complete history of your relationship with Mr. Frisch? Hopefully, we are not intruding too much upon your free time.
A: Oh, not at all, dears. You two seem very lovely, and hopefully this old lady will not bore you to death with her tales of the days long past. Well, as I mentioned earlier, we have been friends since before Academia. I think we were about 15 or 16 summers old. Yes… probably around that time. I was one summer older, though, and whenever our parents met for lunch or a picnic, he very much kept to himself most of the time. Those books he read all the time. He read so much. Maybe too much, if you ask me.
But I was always the jolly one, with a wide smile and very fond of people; maybe too much laughter (chuckle). And he intrigued me. His two brothers were the autocar, gulballa jocks. Popular kids even though they were younger than him and always together, while Frisch came off as a complete opposite. He had the air of a timid soul, like a small boat adrift on a vast, chaotic ocean. But once you tap into his soul, he was the storm itself. A living contradiction. Not a hypocrite, no, but an oxymoron of calm and ferocity. That gentle quietness made him seem naive, almost fragile… yet when he spoke, he revealed a mind that saw the world far more clearly than most.
Q:Could you tell us a bit about his parents and brothers? In a journal he left, he mentioned that his father was not able to become a conscript, so he had to apply. Was his father well?
A: Mr. and Lady Allupi were both very serious people. Mr. Allupi more so I think. While I was present, Frisch held most of his conversations either with me, or with his father, whom he respected and adored quite a bit. Whenever our parents talked about politics or if such societal topics came up, Frisch would listen and sometimes even add something to the conversation. My father teased Mr. Allupi, saying "Manel, sometimes I think you are so uptight, your boy's first words were 'alas' and 'hence' just so you'd pay attention to him". He even went so far as to tease Frisch himself, calling him 'Mr. Alas' and such. Frisch never took it too seriously, of course. Even though he might've been a very earnest person even from a young age, he knew how to take a joke. But not how to make one, that's for sure. (chuckle)
As for his father, during the first summer of my studies he seemed well, but I didn't see him much as he worked a lot. I did not see their family much after I started my second summer, even though I moved here in Dzinvana when I first began studying, so I cannot really tell. All I know is that he died, which is something I heard from my father after the war. Lady Allupi was a professor at the Great Academia, so I saw her more frequently during my first summer there. She held my Humana Græch and Snæenarrozlae Rhetorica classes. She was a wonderful speaker herself. No wonder Frischko held such strong speeches.
Q:Are you familiar with his speeches? Have you had the chance to hear any in person by chance?
A: I have listened to some of the zizer (zlurzlæer) recordings when they first came out, but I haven't had the chance to meet him in person during that time. I met him a couple of times after the war, each time looking completely different, but his spirit felt the same. There was always turmoil in Frischko. I came to understand a bit of it while we were dating. His worries, his obsessions, his love… his anger.
Q: That's a surprise, and at the same time fascinating Lady Vruur. Without sounding rude, would it be alright if we went over that period? Oh, and please if any topic becomes too much for you, do openly tell us.
A: You are all so cute, and very well brought up I see. I cannot adore you two more. Glistening like that. Of course, we can talk about almost anything. (laughter) As you are probably already familiar with, the umazlur exam is very important for testing your public speaking ability. Lady Allupi lectured me briefly, however she was always a busy bee as well, so it was Frischko who helped me mostly.
I used to like boys who were a bit older than me, you probably understand Lady? Sunza? Lady Sunza, what a lovely name. It means fruit of love if I remember correctly. Dzekuwa was never my strongest suit. It's simple to talk, yes, but the sheer amount of those characters made my head spin. Anyway, as I was saying, older boys, yes. (chuckle) But Frischko being a family friend, and a younger boy never looked like an option. I must confess, I did not find him attractive while we were younger. But that summer I spent a few weeks at their place, preparing for all the exams, and he amazed me. Lady Allupi was kind enough to offer her help, and even though she wasn't there to teach me most of the time, Frischko was the one to tutor me. A boy, one summer younger. For the Great Academia exams. He really was something. And there were many things I found attractive then. His voice became deeper, manlier. His veins on arms and muscles while he talked and explained various techniques to capture the audience. I was the audience then, and was most definitely captured.
Compared to him, I was no intellectual buff, but my interest in Humanistic Sciences: filosofia, historea dila mundi, rhetorica etc. most likely was something that he found interesting in me. I remember talking to him during that time, how he despised the people in his school. Professors, students, boys and girls alike. To him, they were "too drawn to unimportant things". And he felt lonely. So lonely perhaps that he found my interest in these things so fascinating, that he felt some sort of companionship, sympathy, and in the end a feeling of love maybe. But, it was also his youthful spirit I suppose. You know how boys are at that age, all emotional and easily susceptible to a woman's charm.
Q: And I suppose it ended abruptly? Given the timeline of all the things.
A: Oh, yes. It was a summer vacation thing. In my head at least. He was deeply hurt by my proclamation that we should end things. I didn't like strong ties when I was younger. And during those couple of moons, I felt really drawn to him, but I knew I would end up not as drawn to him as he was to me in the end, and I hated the idea of being so tied to such a place as Dzinvana. During my younger days, I was a bit of a hurrer, you see. I didn't choose any boy, no. But I chose, and then I got bored, and then I'd seek something new. Fun times they definitely were, but I don't deny that I was a bit mean to some of them, and how I left them. It all changed during the war however. That's when I met my husband, Sila, or Silko as I like calling him.
Q: So, that would prove to be the end of your relationship with Mr. Frisch? The reason why we contacted you was because we found an old kepapiria with you, Lady Vruur and Mr. Frisch, signed as 'Proud members of the Rhetorica Magna Debate club', with all the other members lined up as well. As well as a formal document; a proposal to the Student Council and the rectorate, for the approval of foundation of the Rhetorica Magna Debate Club, with Mr. Frisch Allupi as Presidenta, and Lady Mafavana Vania as Vice-Presidenta. Now, I apol-
A: Someone's been a bad student it seems. (chuckle)
Q: Uhm… excuse me? I hope I haven't insulted you or anything.
A: No, no! (laughter) Quite the contrary. I find all this very amusing. These old documents and kepapiria's… I assume you haven't just asked for permission. Back in my day, you'd have to beg and be such a nuisance to a professor for them to let you access the Magna Archiva section. And they'd let you only read there, with someone present, in case you wanted to steal anything, and trust me, many dared.
Oh, how I wanted to read all the historical papers, especially the Tsekue Ele:dzin:panzushi (Tsekue Grand War), the Romance of 13 Kuzans, the Kora Chronicles… they still refuse to publish it. The Kuzans once feared intellectualismo, but the coalition doesn't see profit in it. Who knows, the times might change. Luckily, I see two bright beacons of the future in front of me.
Q:Thank you for your compliments Lady Vruur, we are trying our best. We didn't steal anything. The Magna Archiva is available to fifth summer students now, and aside from the very old historical texts, we searched for anything related to Mr. Frisch. The whole history of the Great Academia in itself is also fascinating. Many people who graduated since its foundation have become great scholars, and controversial figures nonetheless. Uh, about the debate club…
A: Oh, yes, yes! Sorry. (laughter) I completely forgot. Yes, Frischko and I joined forces for the first two moons of his preliminary summer, just before the war. And, maybe we reignited some of our passions. Actually, that might be the most time we spent together if we don't count the summer I was preparing for the exams. I apologize if I am being explicit. It was less painful when we parted ways that time, for him at least. He saw benefits, and adapted to my point of view. This time, I was the one left a bit hurt actually. He grew colder, wasn't that same naive boy like the one just a summer before, and I tasted my own medicine for the first time. Served me right, might I say, hah.
The debate club was a success for what limited time it inevitably had. Lots of seniors, lots of juniors. Overall, we all trained our rhetorics, logic, argumentation and as you might have guessed, Frischko was the star of it. He always won his debates. This one time, he even had a debate setup against an assistant from the Department of Historea Filosofica. History buffs and philosophy nerds, in one package. He got, as you kids say these days, destroyed. Frischko made some fallacies, he wasn't perfect, of course. But the assistant was so overwhelmed by the tone of his voice, which was very deep and manly, and his speaking style was very direct, aggressive, but not overbearing. Almost perfect control. The assistant had no chance to be honest.
Q:What was the debate about?
A: If I remember correctly, something about the existence of Kali. The assistant was a part of the Novi Akalisti club. A popular thought that came with the Denovrri influx. With their technologies and pure pragmatismo, came their literature. A machine of quiet destruction, if you ask me. You might be familiar with the pure nihilismo they brought, and all the schools of thought it produced; the existentialists, the anarchists, anti-natalists… all sorts of, in my opinion, very dangerous ideas.
Frischko, contrary to the then mainstream wave of akalists, was a kalist. Many of the books he used to read were translated Dzana works; religious texts, arguments by scholars who lived centuries ago, and how they tackled the foreign pagan multikalismo. Luckily for him, that wasn't as prohibited. The WPS even flourished in new applicants because of it. However, not everyone is so susceptible to human authoritarian designs.
Q:Would you agree with Mr. Frisch's stance? That the WPS is a 'human authoritarian design'?
A: I was a hedonista at times, not one to take moralismo too seriously. But living here, in the Tsekue delta, affects you. I wasn't necessarily a kalist, but I felt something was there, much grander than us. The Whole Pazumu See was 'the' authority, and it proclaimed that Kali's legacy was in their hands, and that their authority came from Kali directly. But their practices were far from what they preached.
So yes, I do agree with Frischko on that. I saw more truth in the Taradokka, all though they have their own issues at hand; authority in general, or lack thereof. WPS is too centralized; a bureaucratic hell, an artificial construct to control both the people, and the state, in my opinion. But I am sure that many would agree with me. And the whole of Tanzewa is… not ideal to live in. Their government is full of mere puppets of the WPS, yet they are claiming globally that they endorse values of 'demokratia', freedom, diversity and unity. I wish some of those autokrats spent two nights on their streets.
I can't believe that they still impose such strict punishments for unbelievers there. In the 11th centuria, after all of the UV (Unioni De Vrriarr) sanctions? I am not sure I understand how they benefit from such policies in this day and age. All the more, they continue to preach about 'His Love' and promote 'tolerance' and 'regional peace'. Hypocrisy. Nothing more than a farce to get on the Coalition's good side. And the Coalition itself is more than happy to look the other way, as long as the inhumanities are not being performed in their own land.
I'm sorry. I'm not usually like this. But the topic itself is a bit negative in nature.
Q: No need to apologize, Lady Vruur. We, in fact, agree with you wholeheartedly. That is why we are holding this interview. Now, you really did give us a lot of insight when it comes to Mr. Frisch, or as we prefer calling him now 'Great Tonazan'. We hope that we didn't take too much of your time.
A: Of course not, sillies. I am very glad that I could help such young and bright minds. The new generation doesn't completely understand what we all went through, so they take it easy most of the time. 'Comfort' is such a big word in our society lately; I remember when it was 'survival'. Now, I do not say that we shouldn't indulge a little now and then, but the balance is off, if you understand what I am saying. We need both to function properly. You have a great understanding of that, and am very glad to see it. If only my son Yakov had some interest in Academia. He is a smart lad, but so disoriented and consumed in his hobbies. He can't take anything seriously. He is too busy with his graffiti, parties and hooking up with girls. Every now and then I see a new girl leaving our door before I go off to work. I mean, not that I can judge him too much. He got his good looks from his dad, and the charm from me. (chuckle)
Excuse me, I'm rambling too much. Did you by chance have any other questions?
Q: We wouldn't want to keep you any longer Lady Vruur. We really enjoyed our talk with you and no doubt it will help us with our research. Here you go. This is a pamphlet with a summary of our research and all our contact information. You can always send us a letter if you remember anything that might help us with further investigation. It was a pleasure, Lady Vruur. Thank you!
CONCLUSION: Lady Vruur gave us much insight when it comes to the personality of Great Tonazan in his younger summers, which further developed into what we associate him with today by all the external factors taken in account. Contrary to many of the earlier Sesa and their lives, who were more commonly associated with their rebirth in His Gift and turning away from a multikalist tradition, we can see that Mr. Frisch, even during his early age, had an interest and actively pursued the truth of Kali. His intellectual nature only proved beneficial when it came to his research, and his mother Lady Allupi was an important factor which helped him develop rhetorical skills. Rhetorics are a big part of his genius, and besides all of the speeches (some of which will be included in this research for analysis), his debate club, or at least an initial interest into engaging with other intelligent academicians, supported by his previous knowledge, led to such a strong reaction from the public, both positive and negative. Later, we will see that these were just stepping stones for his further battles with the critics, the obvious Akalist intelligentsia and WPS bureaucrats, and how he managed to keep his ground against such a force, outnumbered.